15-11-2022 12:17 AM
15-11-2022 12:17 AM
15-11-2022 12:39 AM
15-11-2022 12:39 AM
@chibam
There is absolutely no need to apologize. I value and appreciate you feedback and what you call the bleak stuff makes me stop and think. I also have my ups and downs and in the down periods I often just have to put everything aside and wait for the upsurge to carry me a bit further along. It is a bit like being a jelly fish in the surf.
As for clinics etc, for some reason I have never had anything much to do with them so that is a world outside of my experience.
I think all that any of us can do is to look around and do what we can whenever an opportunity appears. That will also depend I think to a large extent on our own area of experience.
When I look around I see a lot of interest in mental health around the world and so it should be. MH impacts a very significant percentage of the worlds population and it is increasing. It looks to me like people are at last starting to figure out why. I don't know if this activity is something new or something I just haven't noticed before but things certainly seem to be happening.
Regards
Willy
15-11-2022 12:55 AM
15-11-2022 12:55 AM
Hi @Willy @chibam @Eve7 @Historylover @Patchworks
I have so much to add - it's late & now is not the best fit.
Quick response:
@Willy I'm sorry for the treatment you have endured. I believe you. I have had one similar experience to exactly what you are describing. I cannot imagine the hell you have been put through. I'm sorry. All I can say is that I'm really thankful you are writing here. I haven't had a chance to read everything previous. I believe in what you are fighting for & standing beside you.
@chibam you melt my heart with your observation that there are those who will need to be given a family. Total genius. ❤️
@Eve7 I'm sorry to read of your recent struggles. Thankyou for sharing that you are feeling fragile. 💚
I have my thoughts on CTOs from perspective of carer & vicariously through the person I care for. It is complex. I won't go into all that now.
Regarding housing I wanted to mention that I think it would change so much more than providing necessary human right. It would blur the distinction between those who have & those without.
By affording everyone the human right to live safely (yes it would ease huge mental strain) we will, as a society become a step closer to understanding what it is to be equal.
If we can provide equal rights in one area of what is a very basic human right - access to shelter- they maybe it is possible that other inequalities would become viewed as obscene & we can have greater chance of exposing these abuses for what they really are.
I have strong suspicion that everything stems from housing.
15-11-2022 05:05 AM
15-11-2022 05:05 AM
@maddison wrote:
@chibam you melt my heart with your observation that there are those who will need to be given a family. Total genius. ❤️
Thanks, @maddison !🤗❤️
@Willy wrote:For me personally I would rather live in a hovel with friends and family than in a mansion alone.
Friends and family in reasonable accommodation seems like a good, almost idyllic compromise.
Regards
Willy
When I was coming of age, just about the hottest thing going was the TV show "Friends". I never watched it religiously; but I dipped in and out enough to know what was generally going on.
It gave me some lofty expectations of what to expect of my 20s and perhaps early 30s. I just assumed that becoming an adult meant automatically getting to move in with a group of tight-knit housemates your own age, and having a whole heap of wacky misadventures with them. Sharing your life; all your ups & downs, with a real family of loved-ones you wouldn't give away for all the tea in China.
And then, it doesn't happen; and nobody can tell you why. All they do is look down their nose at you, as if having never gotten to move in with your real family - or even meet them - is somehow your fault.
@maddison wrote:Regarding housing I wanted to mention that I think it would change so much more than providing necessary human right. It would blur the distinction between those who have & those without.
By affording everyone the human right to live safely (yes it would ease huge mental strain) we will, as a society become a step closer to understanding what it is to be equal.
I have strong suspicion that everything stems from housing.
Indeed. It's less about shelter from the rain and snow, and more about the status it affords, isn't it? In many ways, we want the respect much more than the material comforts.
I know I've harped on about this many times before, but when I was in therapy, my therapist told me that no woman would ever want me unless I had more money. My dearest dream has always been to have a loving marriage, so I can't tell you the disheartening impact those words have had on me. I think the reason I gave up on life ultimately stems from that claim.
But there's truth in that, too, isn't there? How many parents would be openly aghast if their son/daughter brought home a fiance who was homeless?
As I think you were implying, the "have nots" don't get any respect in this society. To be a "have not" is to be unworthy of respect, acknowledgement, opportunity, freedom, and most of all, love.
That puts people who don't give a rat's ass about the material goods in a pretty pickle. If you want the respect; the friendship; the loving marriage, you need the bling to be deemed 'worthy' of it all.
Personally, I just hate the indescipherable complexity of it all. If everybody chases the material trappings, how do you tell the ones who really only care about the intangible end-products (i.e. love, respect, ect.) from the shallow people who actually dwell on the material junk?
That's what made my therapist's depiction of the world so sickly to my eyes. Even if I did make a million dollars and get a beautiful woman to fawn over me, how would I ever know if she was in love with me, or just my bank account?
Frankly, I prefer to be broke. At least that way, I'll know that any woman who might give me a second glance must be genuinely interested in me, not my money. Poverty keeps the predators at bay.
15-11-2022 09:27 AM
15-11-2022 09:27 AM
Hi @Patchworks
Thanks for the link to the article. I have had a look at it and I agree with what you are saying.
I am not sure whether we would be able to use the NZ legal approach but it is something I will definitely look into it. I understand however that there are at least two other approaches we could use to take our concerns to a court of law here in Australia - possibly the high court.
I was speaking about this recently with Craig Wallace, the CEO of the Victorian Mental Illness Awareness Council and his response was if you can get it together, go for it. I believe that there are a lot of people around who would like to see this happen. We just need a few people like ourselves willing to tell our stories. This can probably be done anonymously and with very little individual effort. The problem seems to be that people like ourselves have just been too frightened to speak up and the perpetrators of these atrocities just continue to get away with it.
I believe a discussion about this is starting up on the Schizophrenia Spectrum forum. I think it would be worthwhile for anyone who is an Australian resident who has personally experienced these sorts of things in Australia or anyone who is formally a carer of somebody so affected to join in this discussion.
To join this forum go to www dot discord dot com and open a free anonymous account. Then use that account to access this forum.
Regards Willy
15-11-2022 06:29 PM - edited 15-11-2022 06:29 PM
15-11-2022 06:29 PM - edited 15-11-2022 06:29 PM
@chibam
You said - I know I've harped on about this many times before, but when I was in therapy, my therapist told me that no woman would ever want me unless I had more money. My dearest dream has always been to have a loving marriage, so I can't tell you the disheartening impact those words have had on me. I think the reason I gave up on life ultimately stems from that claim.
If a therapist said that to me I would deliver a few choice words like the following-
"general chibam stop The birds are flying stop pls proceed to Schizophrenia Spectrum to await further orders via www dot discord dot com stop wait at hash triggering dash general for further orders stop" .
Something like that would really confuse the hell out of them and then I would just walk out. Everyone would probably think I was mad but so bloody what.
When It comes to relationships, I am a bit of a disaster but anyone can get lucky. I will share a few relationship war stories with you that may lift your spirits when we both get to the other side where I expect we will be both be freer spirits.
Regards
Willy
15-11-2022 08:06 PM
15-11-2022 08:06 PM
@chibam sounds like you have a big heart - like me 💚 Hold on to it forever.
I'm thinking whilst on the surface inequality looks to serve only those at the top - I'm proposing that it doesn't even do that.
I'm thinking they are all running around terrified that they will become a person without. One wrong move & they could fall like any one of us.
It's too much to think about.
You will find a good woman one day. They are rare, but becoming more popular!
I had an online chat on another platform last night. This person mentioned to me that their children are being taught about all sorts of acceptance - that we were never taught in primary school. They said that this generation of kids has way more empathy for people with differences.
The world is changing🤞💚
15-11-2022 09:26 PM - edited 15-11-2022 09:31 PM
15-11-2022 09:26 PM - edited 15-11-2022 09:31 PM
I too believe the world is changing in regards to attitude to mental health. Many people however seem to need bit of a nudge.
According to the World Health Organisation, people with mental health conditions all too often experience severe human rights violations, abuses, coercive practices, discrimination, and stigma from mental health care providers. We know this has been happening to some of our colleagues from this forum.
A new peer-to-peer reform advocacy group has been formed to directly tackle these problems both in Australia and elsewhere and not just talk about it but actually do something. Their manifesto is the World Health Organisation Comprehensive Mental Health Action Plan
World Health Organisation(WHO) Comprehensive Mental Health Action Plan.
I believe that help from people at all levels would be welcome so feel free to indicate you're interest.
Regards
Willy
17-11-2022 02:44 PM
17-11-2022 02:44 PM
Hi @Willy
"I too believe the world is changing in regards to attitude to mental health."
What is it you want society to do with those with mental health issues? Society wants people to contribute, to not be a cost burden on the rest of us. Does society need to be looking for cures or does it need to be accepting? Should society accept the burden of mental health or should there be an expectation of personal responsibility?
It's a bit of a rhetorical question, but I see the main theme as acceptance vs cure. Cost vs Inclusion. Our own personal needs vs the greater good for society. How do we get society to accept the costs of mental health when it means that people might have to give more and get less?
17-11-2022 04:21 PM
17-11-2022 04:21 PM
Not directed at me, tho I happened to land here so.. If I can offer my thoughts?
The way I see it - cure & acceptance are one in the same.
We all have to contribute to this world whether we like it or not
The concept that that less conventionally abled people contributions are of less value, is an illusion.
A society that cares about one another, values difference, is ultimately richer - monetary wise & in every other way possible.
What do we do to achieve this?
Conversations like this are good. I believe @Willy might be brainstorming legal avenues? There are lots of things we can do. Talking about people with mh diagnosis, physical disabilities, minority + LGBTQIA groups in a way that is inclusionary helps to break down stigma.
I don't think it is up to one group in particular to have to pay for those less fortunate (& if it is, they are likely not motivated to do so) I think it's up to all of us. Small actions by many ppl over time could potentially create change needed?
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